On 13 March, the Kopisch’s Bleachery (Bielnik Kopischa) was a venue of a three-hour debate on the redevelopment of Łódź in the area of the Łódź Fabryczna station and the EC1 thermal power plant.

At the invitation of EC1 Arttraction Journal, the following people participated in the debate:
- Jacek Saryusz-Wolski, Member of European Parliament
- Sylwester Pawłowski, Member of Polish Parliament
- Elżbieta Hibner, member of the Board of the Łódź Voivodeship
- Marcin Bugajski, Vice Mayor of Łódź
- Paweł Olczyk, member of the Management Board of PKP S.A.
- Alina Giedryś, member of the Management Board of PKP PLK
- Prof. Krzysztof Stefański, Institute of Art History, University of Lodz
- Krzysztof Apostolidis, businessman
- Marek Cieślak, President of the Board of the Łódź Special Economic Zone
- Prof. Marek Janiak, Institute of Architecture and Urban Planning, Technical University of Lodz
- Krzysztof Cichoń, Ph.D., Institute of Art History, University of Lodz
- Prof. Włodziemierz Nykiel, Rector of the University of Lodz
- Prof. Stanisław Bielecki, Rector of the Technical University of Lodz
- Andrzej Walczak, EC1 Fundacja Łódzka, the commissioner of the Mayor of Łódź for the Special Art Zone

Jacek Grudzień: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks to this debate on the future of the 90 hectares in the centre of Łódź, we are gathering pace and making up for the time we’ve lost. I was happy to receive, and accept, the invitation to conduct this discussion. We have not yet seen a debate which would gather so many exquisite participants and such an audience, for whom Łódź is important. We will discuss how Łódź is going to change.

Andrzej Walczak: ‘Why build new Łódź?’ On 11 December, a large article of the same title appeared in a national newspaper. For many years, Łódź has been haunted by black PR – whatever was said about Łódź was bad. The article did not evoke any response from either the Mayor of the city or the City Architect. It’s interesting that when we are required to make a statement, we are not able to answer this simple question ourselves. Today, we ask ourselves this question and we hope it will induce a discussion. The idea of the new Łódź is based on discussion and meeting. That’s when new ideas are born. It's not about speaking in one voice. Something extraordinary is being created; this huge project is an opportunity which may be the only such opportunity for the next 150 years. We must talk about it so that we don’t waste it. I would like to explain one basic thing: Łódź has only one city-centre: it’s at the junction of Piotrkowska and Piłsudskiego streets. I do hope that Mr Mayor will allow us to refer to Piłsudskiego as the Main Street for the next few hours, to recall what it used to be like. I have conducted many conversations about the awkwardness of the name the New Centre of Łódź. It was recorded in August 2007 in the Resolution of the City Council as the New Centre in Łódź. ‘In’ has been changed and we now have the New Centre of Łódź. This is awkward. I would like to encourage you to stop using this name. We call the space between EC1 and the station Kobro City, in honour of Katarzyna Kobro, since the Kobro Square was where everything began.

Jacek Grudzień: Why build new Łódź, Mr Mayor?

Marcin Bugajski: A difficult and simple question at the same time – the answer is obvious. Łódź needs a new development opportunity, a fresh impulse to finally take its rightful place among Polish and European major cities. The New Centre of Łódź is in fact just a description. The name Kobro City is very appropriate. It is something which gives the city a civilisational opportunity. Especially the railway station and the high-speed railway, but also something which is less talked about but which is strictly related to it: a transport link between Łódź and the rest of the country, a motorway ring around the city. Thanks to all this – and Kobro City – Łódź will no longer be just a dormitory town of Warsaw and it will become a city able to compete with our capital. But for now, please don’t tell people from Warsaw about this.

Jacek Grudzień: I think it is worth shifting our attention to the representatives of PKP since you have already started investments, you have made various decisions…

Alina Giedryś: Łódź is located in the geographical centre of Poland, at the cross-roads of the historic North-South and East-West routes. It’s time Łódź took advantage of it. All the work of the past few years have been done with this in mind. The project will be crowned with opening of a new station in the centre of Łódź, where high-speed trains will stop. This will be a real, natural stimulus, based on contemporary market action, not political decisions, for a new centre to be created right here. Conditions need to be created for this to happen – afterwards, everything will fall in place. This happens in all countries which decide to create a high-speed railway system. 300 kmph and more is a standard which stimulates all the states which committed to it, in Europe, Africa, and Asia. Nowadays, no one would build differently. It is our duty to join the countries which act, think and create this way. As the Railways we are responsible for a quick and easy construction of the new station which will combine all functions of a multimode node according to highest standards, i.e. the function of urban transport with regional transport, inter-regional and international transport using high-speed railway. The first element of a part of the entire urban development plan is the Łódź Fabryczna station. Procurement procedure is in progress, the end is set for autumn, first workers will start digging in spring. The investment is scheduled to end in 2014.

Paweł Olczyk: Why new Łódź? Well, not to become a museum. Łódź used to be a city of a well-defined production profile. This is the past. We need to make the city a place of intellectual industry. A city must develop. All big cities have business districts, cultural centres which define their place in the world. What will there be above the new station? Obviously, it is designed so that there won’t be just some free space, it will be commercially developed. We expect there will be a hotel there, as well as service providers and offices. We are working towards this, certain work is being finished, and by the end of April we will have prepared all the data for a memorandum to start seeking investors for what will be on the surface.

Elżbieta Hibner: I will talk not as a representative of regional authorities, but as a third-generation native inhabitant of Łódź. I think that Łódź is on the threshold of a huge development leap, something it has already experienced about three times, and may we remind people from outside of Łódź that it was incorporated in 1423 by Władysław Jagiełło. Let us not talk about some European or world complex or about a museum, then. Let’s talk about genius loci. It was no coincidence that the industry burst out here like nowhere else in the world. I am happy that we have Kobro City and not a new Łódź; I really hated talking about a new Łódź. It can be a new project in the old Łódź. This is how I would like to refer to it because such a project couldn‘t have happened in a field or at an empty motorway junction. Such a project could happen only in a place protected by genius loci, which you can all feel. After all, it is not a coincidence that this is where contemporary avant-garde art bloomed. During the last 20 years, the reborn local government has made numerous small steps and major leaps forward. We can all see that Łódź is changing. Now, a great opportunity for making something huge is upon us, an undeniably historical leap in development. Mind you, unlike Kraków, Gdańsk and Wrocław, Łódź is a lady, so it’s even better that the leap will be associated with Kobro City. Maybe a Polish version would be more appropriate, without the term ‘city’, which could be used to spread it around abroad only. For us, inhabitants of Łódź, a friendlier name is what we need. Either Miasto Kobro (Kobro City) or Centrum Kobro (Kobro Centre), it doesn’t matter.

Sylwester Pawłowski: As I see it, there is only one answer to the question ‘Why build the New Centre of Łódź?’ – because both Łódź and the inhabitants deserve it. In relation to what Mrs Hibner has just said, I want to state that Łódź has had two opportunities so far. This is the third one. An opportunity indeed, as both Łódź citizens and their representatives from various professional, political, and social environments are starting to speak unanimously. They seem to notice the huge potential historically hidden in this city, the enormous potential in new generations, and the great will of the inhabitants to make Łódź a leading research, cultural and economic centre in Poland. The location of Łódź so close to Warsaw used to be a barrier for development of our city. Today, in the world of technological and transport changes, it is an advantage. The notion of Łódź-Warsaw duopolis used to sound rather amusing for us some time ago. It turns out that we will have the best connections with Warsaw, and also Poznań and Wrocław. Thus, the need for development of Łódź, an architectural reminiscence of the 19th century. Today, the city needs to be developed anew. According to specialists, this urban value must be retained, thus, the need for revitalisation of EC1 and its surroundings arises. Architects from Łódź are very careful when handling its heritage. And one more, very important issue. It is the courage of those who, against all odds, decided to talk about the topic of our current debate and to subject it to our local but also nationwide discussion. I truly believe that by debating all the details, we will leave today’s discussion and other similar meetings with a belief we are going in the right direction. I admire all the actions which have already been undertaken and I would like to, as much as I can, be a part of this incredible enterprise. There is enough work for all of us.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski: I am captivated by the boldness of this project. No one questions the Łódź of today and the need to preserve it. I love this ‘museum’ – this is where I’m from. The idea of the new Łódź refers to history – such a concept was possible only in Łódź, as this is the founding myth ex nihil nihil. It’s yours, Andrzej. As a person from here, I get upset when the concept of a great, new Łódź clashes with the notion of small, even puny Łódź, which I cannot commit to. This is about an area of over ninety hectares. This is about the creation of the new Łódź which will preserve what it used to be and have an added value. I would call this a program of conservative modernisation of the city. Why? Because if something does not develop, it dies. A new city fabric must be created. Dear Rector Bielecki, we need a Łódź Silicone MIT, dear Rector Nykiel, we need a Łódź Harvard. And a few more enterprises. I wrote down what has just been said: intellectual industry is the future. In the European Parliament, we are debating the issue of European economy, which faces a similar problem – it is afraid that it will diminish and perish, that it won’t be able to keep up with the global market. Only bold individuals, those with a vision, will find their place on the map. That is why we need a silicone Łódź, a Łódź with intellectual industry, a European Łódź. A European Łódź in the spirit of the Parliament St. presented in Brussels. It’s all about us, people from Łódź, and the city which used to be opened to Eurasia and draw the spirit and technology from Western Europe, to have today such ambitions which will span from the Atlantic to the Pacific. The way to the Atlantic is fairly simple since we are a part of the EU, there are no borders. We can go straight to Lisbon. We can also go eastwards, as Łódź is mentally better prepared to conquer that area. This is also a challenge for Europe today. Surely, in several decades, the Europe will open to Eurasia if the transformation in Russia is successful. As for us, the people of Łódź, we have been there and we have traded with that part of the world. By the way, since I am the Brussels man, I have to tell you to hurry as the EU money is not going to be there forever. This is a unique opportunity to realise 50% or more of such brave concepts with EU funding. And finally: why culture? We don’t need to build Łódź from scratch but to build on the basis of what already exists. I agree with the third opportunity you talked about, Mr Pawłowski. Each generation has to add something new. For the past 50 years, nothing could be done because money would escape to Warsaw and the city was drained economically. Now we have an opportunity to reverse this. We have a competitive, free market and everything depends on us.

Marcin Bugajski: Since I became the unofficial Vice Mayor for railway issues, I have been in constant contact with railway companies to help complete, according to a very strict schedule, all final negotiations and to start our key project. This is work in progress, done efficiently, quickly, providing visible effects. Our computers get really busy at times; we have various coordination meetings all the time. We don’t boast about our work, as we consider it a normal thing. The work on this project is a civilisational opportunity for Łódź. There is no doubt that the key element of Kobro City is the multimode railway station.

Krzysztof Apostolidis: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a special day. It is special because, for the first time ever, I have met representatives of the European Parliament, representatives of my country’s parliament, of the Marshal’s Office, City Office, Polish National Railways (PKP), entrepreneurs and local patriots, representatives of the two most important universities: the Technical University of Lodz and the University of Lodz, and local authorities – all gathered around the same idea. We are talking about a huge concept, about the future development of the city. For the first time ever, we are speaking in one voice. This means we are building a civil society. It is beautiful. We cannot forget about the business world – we have heard that at some point there will be no more EU. Without the business world, there is nothing. The money spent on railway or culture all comes from our enterprises. We must remember that stimulation of economy and creating a positive atmosphere around entrepreneurs is the key element of social development. First, we need enterprises which will earn money, then we must pay taxes, and only then someone may decide how to spend these resources. You need to remember that those big, international companies which are now coming to Łódź will leave some day, when the economic situation changes. Therefore, it is important to develop research institutions and cooperation between entrepreneurs and universities.

Jacek Grudzień: Who should coordinate this?

Krzysztof Apostolidis: The best form of coordination is the free market, i.e. businesses. Businesses need to reach out to the Professor and say they require a specific service and the Professor needs to reach out to the businesses and say: listen, I have a new project. This is the only way, this is how it’s done in the USA, and this is how it has to be done here. There are no regulations; you cannot have a guidebook for business-university cooperation. But you do have the free market.

Elżbieta Hibner: I wish to add some order into the discussion from the point of view of coordination. Ladies and gentlemen, a region is something in the EU which is responsible for the development in each country. A city is the other pole of the growth. Without cooperation between the region and the city, no big plans succeed. It is an observation I have made during the past few years of my work and I can see that many plans fail because there was no proper cooperation on the administration-political level. It requires a master plan for what the state is planning in the form of motorways and for what the region is planning, and it all has to be included in the great plan of a city. At the same time, we need to talk about financial coordination. You either know how to run a successful investment or not. For example: Spain, known for the best organised motorway investments, recorded a huge increase in tourist inflow in the last few years thanks to its motorways. And thanks to the well-developed network of motorways in East Germany, the inhabitants of the East German Lands were able to leave quickly and efficiently. Thus, it’s not only about the infrastructure, big plans, and money, but also about the ability to coordinate.

Jacek Grudzień: Do we have such abilities here in the city and in the region?

Elżbieta Hibner: Anyone who knows anything about the city and voivodeship authorities is well aware of the fact we talk too rarely. I can give you an example with which I would start when talking about the construction of Kobro City. I would discuss with the Technical University, the City and the thermal power plant what to do with the geothermal resources underneath the area. According to the study by the Spatial Planning Office of the Łódź Voivodeship, with which I am in constant contact, it is underneath EC1 where the warmest point is located. In other words, this is where the hottest geothermal water is located nearest to the surface. The Technical University has applied for a concession for such a geothermal borehole. We need to make some decision about this. Shall we drill one borehole and send the heat to EC1 or shall we drill such a borehole in the warmest place, i.e. beneath EC1, or maybe shall we make two boreholes because it is an effective source of cheap heating from the economic point of view? Additionally, if it turns out that the water has healing qualities, the conference centre with a spa and rehabilitation section will be built by private investors since it will be a very profitable investment. In such a case, we won’t have to apply for EU funds or to ask for funding with modest city funds. Profitable investments should be undertaken by private investors. Trying to persuade the City Council to spend several million PLN on an investment with a return rate calculated for as long as 10 years is difficult and irrational. By showing everyone that private capital will be wisely handled and it will be provided with good investment conditions, we will have the opportunity to finance many investments with non-budget money. Let’s talk reality. Great infrastructural projects require, first of all, coordination of work at all levels of public authorities, and second of all, creation of entities which will manage such projects. These are the so-called special purpose entities or special purpose vehicles which consist of both public and private partners. Such solutions are well-known in the world. Such solutions are well-known in Europe. In Poland, we have statutory solutions.

Andrzej Walczak: Our task was to set a high standard – Rob Krier’s masterplan is just that. A dominant role of culture, objects of appropriate importance, high-speed railway and Kobro City or the New Centre of Łódź all equal to four years of work on propagating the project, creating the trademark which is worth as much as it sells for. Sells to whom? To those who have the money and who will want to profit from this. This is the only way it can be done. The whole idea of Kobro City is based on great creation of a valuable trademark. For this reason, an idea of one spot for various investments in the area was born. If we talk about PLN 300-400 million for one object, it is not enough to make the Canadians of the Qataris interested in building in Łódź. Only when we put together all the investments, we land a project worth a few billion. The world loves huge and radical projects. At this point, I wish to talk a bit about the Special Art Zone, commonly known as the Tube. It is the essence of the idea presented a year ago in Brussels; it is an orthodox project to unite Eastern and Western Europe. Today, there are two different Europes: Western and Eastern, the better one and the worse one. Only Łódź can bring them together. It is not possible to push the border all the way to the Ural Mountains, but culture can do this instead. Our dream is to lead to a large meeting of ministers of culture in Łódź in 2016. The glass Tube has two ends, the Eastern and Western one. We are talking about the Western end with the Ambassador of Germany: we want it to host an 18-metre painting by the master of op-art, Ludwig Wilding, who left us his project before he died. With the Ambassador of the Russian Federation, we will talk about the so-called Eastern cover, designed by a Russian artist, most probably Ilya Kabakov. In the vicinity of the Special Art Zone, seven or eight storey buildings could be built, which would be sold at a high price, thus, financing the construction of the Kobro Square near the underground station. And finally, the Gate of Łódź, a symbolic element which proves that the city knows how to talk to the Railways, as the gate will be situated on two lots: one owned by the Railways, and the other by the city. It is us who need to settle our matters in order for the symbolic gate of Łódź to be created.
 
Marek Cieślak: I get the impression that we avoid viewing certain things as they are. Andrzej Walczak has brought up the topic of Kobro City, which is not only about the 90 hectares of land, a hole in the ground, a railway tunnel and a station. It’s about the face of the city; it’s about what Łódź will look like in the 21st century. The list of issues which have been raised about this strip of Łódź is endless. It turns out that a project which, at the beginning, seemed a bit crazy, is quite possible to complete, when we consider it today. It is also about public transport, as Łódź is planning to have the main transfer node down there. Maybe finally it would be worth integrating the city and regional public transport. Maybe it’s worth thinking about the street layout and reconstruction of a part of the city. There are so many issues raised along the topic of Kobro. Now, the real question is: What kind of Łódź should we build? Let’s start putting our city together using some logic. To be honest, I'm slightly annoyed with the topic of our meeting. Not ‘why?’ but ‘how and when?’ Seriously, I believe we have already wasted enough time and we should use the momentum to develop this project.

Krzysztof Stefański: ‘Why build new Łódź?’ is obviously a rhetorical question. We all support this idea. Who wouldn’t want to build new Łódź? I represent the community of art historians, and more specifically, the group of people whose occupation is preservation of historical buildings. I wish to air some doubts harboured by the people for whom Łódź is important. What about the old Łódź when we’ll be building the new one? For the next 10 years, as I gather, all the city funding, all the EU money will be invested in the new Łódź. Mr Walczak has come up with a nice slogan: Kobro City. Let me throw in mine: Rembieliński City. What about Rembieliński city? Because the Łódź as we know it now, even the area we are currently talking about, was created by Rajmund Rembieliński. The former Łódź is falling apart in front of our eyes. Some parts of the city are completely derelict. I would like to know, maybe from city authorities, from Mr Mayor, if there is a concept of saving the old Łódź and what the proportion between the funds to be spent in the next 10 years on creation of the new Łódź and on reconstruction of the old Łódź is. The old Łódź needs a complex rescue plan. We have to remember that the wealth of Łódź lies within the old centre, not in the new one. The restored, renewed Łódź could be a shining jewel of Europe as it is a unique urban complex with beautiful, still well-preserved cityscape. How much of this will survive the next 10 years, though? No one knows. So this is the basic question: why is there money for new Łódź, but there is no money for the old one, for saving Rembieliński City, which is this treasure of Łódź. It is the old centre that will decide about the value of our city.

Marcin Bugajski: We cannot lock Łódź for the time of construction of Kobro City. We are conducting a very serious verification of WPI, which is an annex to the city budget which defines our long-term expenses. We are conducting this in-depth budget verification in order to release funds assigned for some non-crucial or too broad issues. We consider creation of Kobro City as a city-wide investment. We will have a station, new business parks, new tourist centres, places which will lure companies that will increase our tax income, provide additional budget funding, and this will be the money we will use to save Rembieliński City. As I see it, as the city authorities see it, there is no contradiction between Kobro City and Rembieliński City, no opposition between the new and the old, former, cityscape. They both require the City’s help.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski: I agree with your comment, Professor, in 100, even 200 percent. I harbour a lot of resentment towards those who allowed for many buildings to be demolished, and it personally hurts me when the old city fabric is torn. There where cases when the conservation authorities were outrun by bulldozers. It’s a crime against Łódź. A sub-heading in an article by Dorota Jarecka reads: ‘Does the new city have to contradict the old one?’ This thesis is fundamentally false. Łódź is an old city in terms of urban development, a city which, owing to communist over-exploitation, has today tenement houses which are falling apart. We still haven’t been able to save the entire Księży Młyn. Revitalisation of so many buildings by such a poor city as Łódź is impossible; I’m saying this as an economist. Łódź needs to gain money to be able to save it all. A way to gain money is to create a new citygenic fabric. The money which we would not invest in the new Łódź, which will pay off manifold, would be enough to save one quarter only. This would be 1/50 of the city, which would not generate any profit. We must create a new energy which will gain money for preserving the old Łódź. We cannot put them in contradiction. I think that a decision not to create this new energy in a situation when between 50 and 85 percent of the money will come from the EU would be a logical mistake and miscalculation. Moreover, the city and the region could devise a strategy how to link the income from the new Łódź with revitalisation. It’s a motor whose speed will only increase. If there are tourists here, intellectual, industrial and technological creativity, etc., it will all transform into tax money and that will flow into the city budget… It can be said that the new Łódź will have a moral debt towards the old Łódź. It will have to pay it back. For now, the city policy should be to save everything that may be lost forever. We need to do away with the criminal practice of demolishing and we need a definition of a historical building. There are many things which can be saved, you can settle with developers. We have to establish a Łódź-to-Łódź contract: the new Łódź saving the old Łódź. It’s a program for the next thirty years.

Elżbieta Hibner: The people of Łódź are the authors of one of the biggest revitalisation projects in Poland, it’s a huge project worth PLN 90 million of co-financing by the EU, for the quarter enclosed between the following streets: Piotrkowska, Nawrot, Tuwima and Kilińskiego. The voivodeship authorities have officially considered this project as the key project, which means that revitalisation of this part of Łódź has been treated as something of crucial importance for the development of the city, as well as of the whole region. Considering the progress of work on this project, my co-workers signal from time to time that it may exceed the original schedule. Why? Because, unfortunately, it’s not only about the money. It’s about revitalisation which is not only technical, which involves not only reconstruction of buildings, repairing streets. Each revitalisation project inside a city-centre needs to be a kind of social revitalisation as well. And this is the tricky part. In order to revitalise a quarter, i.e. to demolish old sheds, to lay new traffic routes, to design green areas, the owners of the old sheds need to agree to this. 40 percent of the inhabitants of Śródmieście (city-centre) don’t pay their rent, just because they cannot afford it. The city’s policy has been to introduce organisations where the poor would move out, but the organisations would pay a lowered rent since they are social benefit organisations. Just look how many political and social benefit organisations, different foundations, associations, etc. occupy large apartments in Łódź. These apartments need to be returned to the people. A young, dynamic, developing family should occupy and invest in the apartment, not an organisation which uses it as the place for meetings once a month.
There must be social consent as to the way the problems of the inhabitants of Śródmieście should be solved. The construction of Kobro is so interesting because we are building from scratch, we are introducing residents, we are selling to people who will maintain these houses without begging for the city’s help. And whatever is historically valuable in Śródmieście requires taxpayers’ money. We need to introduce completely new management mechanisms for the city-centre. Without this, this revitalisation will be a failure, even with EU money, as we can already see.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski: And look, Mr Apostolidis was glad we all agree... I think now the time has come to quarrel a bit. Mrs Hibner, all of us are from Łódź, aren’t we? Let me put it plain, then: Łódź is not absorbing EU funding well. Łódź is falling behind, both Łódź and the voivodeship…

Elżbieta Hibner: The voivodeship is in the lead.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski: No, Marshal, please consider the statistics. The leaders have PLN 6,000 per capita, whereas Łódź has PLN 1,500. A large magnet attracts a lot, a small magnet attracts little. Through the new, dynamic concept of Łódź, we want to create a strong magnet. Thinking in terms of zero gain/loss game, i.e. what we don’t spend on the new centre, we can spend on another city street and vice versa, is just statistical thinking which will lead us nowhere. I oppose the Mayor and Marshal Office’s complacency in equal distribution of ‘merits’ when it comes to utilisation of EU funding. When I’m back in Brussels and I look at how others fight for funding, how modern the submitted projects are, I notice how not inventive, laid back, static, and lacking of ideas Łódź is. It falls through badly when compared to the concepts from Pomorskie or Dolnośląskie voivodeships. It wasn’t just bad luck that made us lose in the competition for the European Parliament office in Łódź. We are not dynamic enough, we are not inventive enough, and we are using EU funds badly. I propose that instead of PLN 1,500 per capita we should be netting PLN 6,000, as Gdańsk does. Only then will we have those quarters and the new centre.

Jacek Grudzień: Let us pass on the microphone – we still haven’t heard Marek Janiak speak.

Marek Janiak: You really have to be patient. [general laughter]

Jacek Grudzień: That’s life… We have been waiting for four years for this discussion, Professor.

Marek Janiak: My heart soars the most when I hear our MEP talking, his words are logical and rational. What strikes me most, as a citizen of Łódź who still lives here, in the post-war development of the city is the totally absurd, unexplainable mystery of stupid decisions and the lack of coherence between them. Obviously, it’s not only a problem of Łódź, but of the entire country. Something which is normal everywhere else in the world becomes a caricature in Poland. Łódź, a huge city with even larger potential, a city in the centre of Poland, has always been physically and morally pestered. Maybe because of political issues, but also for some other mysterious reasons. Not long ago, we witnessed a discussion on whether an intersection of main motorways should be located near the centre of Poland, logically as it seems, or bypass the centre to help Sieradz. No one thought that maybe we should help the bigger city as it will be more beneficial for the country, for the region and for Łódź. If we look at the national railway network, it also becomes obvious that Łódź is so well-located. I am very grateful to the Railways for making the first logical and rational step in so many years. If you want to have an important railway location, place it in the centre and it will support a wide area. Now, after the decision has been made, it seems so obvious. We are witnessing something which is becoming a magical and logical course of events. I am happy for this. When we talk about the New Centre of Łódź, we must remember that the genius of Mr Walczak (who, considering his potential as an organisational master, let alone the financial potential, could’ve easily invested in some Hula-Gula Islands, in Florida or anywhere else, and we know such examples very well) lies in his decision to invest in Łódź. Just as the once powerful factory owners like Poznański, Kindermann, Geyer, etc., who, according to what I’ve been taught at school, were bloodthirsty bad people who pushed the entire society into shady tenements, where kids suffer from rickets. [general laughter] But they did create something for the city, they did not take it with them and leave. And Andrzej Walczak has decided he will invest in Łódź and he has chosen the perfect location – a wound in the centre of the city. Any railway node in any city in the world is a nightmare for the city structure. On the one hand, it powers it, but on the other, it cuts the city with an impassable line and it destroys its structure, splitting it in half, sometimes even more than a river does. In many cities, they would put railway underground or construct viaducts if it was technologically possible in order to avoid the splitting of the city. Łódź developed rapidly and there was no time for it. Placing railway underground – that’s genius. We are going to simply darn the hideous hole in the city, at a very important location, at the centre, at the best location in terms of economy, structure and publicity. We are getting for free something which used to be an inaccessible, disgusting, hideous place. We all know what railway surroundings look like, not only in Poland, but anywhere in the world. This will disappear. Ladies and gentlemen, the fact that Andrzej Walczak came up with this idea, that the Railways embraced the logic and rationale of it, is something wonderful. I don’t know many similar examples from Łódź or from Poland. I usually encounter some nonsense and the magical ‘no, don’t know, won’t do it, it can’t be done, it’s impossible.’ If we use something which can be called rational thinking, logic or the best solution, there won’t be any conflicts during creation of the centre. We just need to remember that whatever has to come from the city, like street, media, etc., cannot harm the historical fabric of the area. This is where my view may differ from Prof. Stefański’s view, but I think that the fundamental responsibility of this generation is not to destroy this historical fabric. I don’t believe we will succeed in revitalising it – I am devastated when I see the progress in this matter. But it is a huge city – we can try not to destroy it, because, as Mr Saryusz-Wolski said, it’s a crime against the city. The issue of the new centre has nothing to do with it. Kobro City will darn the hole, it won’t destroy anything. At this point, I would like to add something, Marshal Hibner, as I may not get another chance at the microphone: the worst type of cooperation I have encountered in the 20 or even 30 years of my work as a social activist is the cooperation between the voivodeship authorities and the City. I’m interested in Łódź and I cannot understand how it is possible that regional policy is not focused on Łódź. I would put it this way: don’t ask what Łódź can give to the region, ask what the region can give to Łódź. It is as if someone from Tuscany questioned the quality of Florence as the main city, which creates everything and without which the region could not exist – such a person would be considered out of his or her mind. But when I want to do something in Łódź and for Łódź and I go to the Marshal’s Office, I hear: Sir, you can do this project but only if it will be for the region as well. But I want to renovate a tenement in Łódź! Well yes, but why don’t you invite there some spinners from Opoczno. You can’t think this way. If we don’t create a strong heart and strong head, the limbs will wither and die. This centre, the metropolis we are talking about, will return this energy. And finally, a short historical statement. How historical buildings can generate economic advantage is best illustrated by the so-called Manufaktura, which required colossal funds. How they did it is not important, they somehow managed, it is there and it’s not bad. Huge economic resources went to something which is not a simple construction and which will not produce quick return. If you consider the economic success of Manufaktura and compare it with something without the historical fabric, such as the M1 shopping mall located in the same city, the result is more than obvious. For me, there is no opposition between the new Kobro City and the old Łódź. New city fabric will cover the hole, and the way it will all look like is very important. I can sense some fear that the new centre may become a doubtful architectural and urban success, like La Defense in Paris is. It’s a monument of modern architecture, but no one wants to go there. Thus, the district is an artificial, cramped business centre. Fortunately, the design by Rob Krier as well as the urban development principles employed in our centre is wiser than those used in the case of La Defense. European civilisation has already reached a higher level. It’s no longer amazed with modernist design and creating something new by all means. Neoclassical trends are emerging, a return to a certain urban philosophy.

Marcin Bugajski: Thank you, Minister and thank you, Professor for your input about funding and about Łódź. I hope that after what Mrs Hibner has said, the next contest related to culture, which will take place in June, will not bring something which happened during the contest for modernisation of buildings, when Łódź did not receive a single project just because the money was assigned to the rim of the voivodeship. The revitalisation project of the pilot quarter is under my careful attention, I've already met with the residents and I intend to have this in a verifiable state by November, just as scheduled.

Jacek Grudzień: I would like to invite the Mayor and Marshal Hibner to one of my shows, to further discuss the issue of revitalisation. Doctor, your patience is being rewarded. You have waited the longest to talk…

Krzysztof Cichoń: It was worth it because Prof. Janiak has introduced two very important elements into the discussion. First of all, the children with rickets in the 19th century, and secondly, spinners from Opoczno. I’m also glad that he introduced magic and mystery as a notion, because I was growing more and more surprised when listening to the speakers who would animate buildings. The revitalisation of buildings is something even the European Parliament cannot do. Buildings are not alive and nothing can be done about this, I’m afraid. We can’t do it in Łódź either, even with the help of spinners from Opoczno. [general laughter] In this project, on the one hand, there is business and economic power, but on the other, decision-makers and public authorities, and architects on yet another hand. An important element of this new Kobro City centre – whatever we want to call it – is the educational value and education per se. At this point, I wish to relate to those 19th century children suffering from rickets, since the new centre is supposed to be a place which will include the inhabitants into the educational system. The city, but also the region – we can bring those children from Opoczno, just as we can bring the spinners from Opoczno here. There is also the question of when this project will be finished, because as for now everyone is anxious for it to start. There is a certain metaphor of an open-heart surgery connected with it. But the heart never stops beating. Finally, there is the question of raising a new generation of the users of this project.

Krzysztof Apostolidis: In this discussion, there was a question of what we should do for the old city fabric to look better and how to gain financial backing. Ladies and gentlemen, in 1999, I was finishing my investment in Piotrkowska, Secesja 89. 10 years have passed, and ten years ago I was hoping that the entire Piotrkowska Street would look like this today. I regret to say it, but only the parts owned by the City look bad. Therefore, I strongly recommend the City, the Mayor, to find courage to sell Piotrkowska Street, the property, buildings, and tenements – not only in Piotrkowska – to the citizens. The City has no money to revitalise them. Our discussion has confirmed it. Secondly, there are not enough professionals who know how to do this. The City has the advantage that it can be only the beneficiary of property tax. May it be so. The buildings have to be the property of economic entities and private owners. If private entrepreneurs, private owners and business institutions were the owners of the tenements, those buildings would be in far better shape. Through such a decision, a truly magic thing may happen. The citizens of Łódź will become the owners of their city. We will increase the power of the identity of this place.
Alina Giedryś: If I may, I would like to sift through what has been said and find the two issues I can relate to. Most of all: cooperation. Cooperation which is a sine qua non condition. This debate wouldn’t be possible, and the current state of affairs, of the projects, of the advancement wouldn‘t be possible without cooperation between all the interested parties. The preparation of this project is extremely complex. It’s important for the city, for the region and for the whole country. It’s a project which will become a stepping stone for the entire economy. By investing in such a place which will be a stepping stone for an entire city, the investors provide it with a momentum, stimulus, and opportunities. Money consumed by another city quarter will not produce such a result; it’s also necessary, but it won’t do anything more as it will remain inside that quarter. This huge project, on the other hand, is a generator of the future for this city, based on rational economic principles where the City gives as much as it can, where we use EU funding just because we can do so. We won’t build high-speed railway without the next EU budget perspective with priority on railway transport. We are assigning two and a half times more on motorways than on railway, so it’s time to reverse this in the next EU perspective. Only then will Łódź and Poland rise in a rational way. Railway from a city-centre to a city-centre can compete with motorways and short-distance air travel. There is positive political atmosphere around this project; Minister Cezary Grabarczyk officially supports it. All authorities working on this project consider it their duty to solve any problems en route of this investment. Legal and technical aspects and preparation of every detail are so advanced that we want to start in autumn. We will have concluded a contract with the general contractor for three elements of the railway infrastructure – you may not be aware of this, but the Railways are represented by two separate companies. We have to buy and sell and consult all our decisions with each other. PLK is competent as to the line infrastructure, the stations are the property of PKP, and the third party is the City. The end of work on the station urban infrastructure of the underground station – excluding the commercial section, for which a deadline is not so tight – as well as on the urban infrastructure directly related to the station operations, i.e. Składowa Street, the new section of the tram line, a fragment of Kilińskiego Street, connection to Narutowicza Street, Nowotargowa Street, is scheduled to be complete in 2014. These are logistically related elements which have to be constructed simultaneously, from the bottom up, like in a honeycomb, not separately. Everything is set so that by 2014 the high-speed railway could have this point as a fixe and could continue construction further. As for the high-speed railway, thanks to Minister Cezary Grabarczyk’s support, we are witnessing the final stages of the procurement procedure for the creator of the feasibility study of the entire Warsaw-Łódź-Poznań-Wrocław line. We want to take into consideration all the foreseeable problems. The nodes in Łódź and in Warsaw are ready, and so are these in Poznań and in Wrocław, we have all the necessary geological tests done. The reason for all this is to give the Government in 2011 sufficient material to decide about the best route for high-speed railway. This decision will engage all the elements, included in the contracted development, necessary for issuing a ‘design and build’ call for tenders mode. And in 2014, as I suspect, this will mean selecting the contractor for the ‘Y’ section. If rational and economic thinking wins, the first stage will be the Warsaw-Łódź part, as the amount of passengers here is virtually self-sufficient. The economic rationale behind this section is clear. Consecutive sections present a more complex foundation and serve a more complex function. We travel through Poznań to Berlin, whereas through Wrocław we can go to the Czech Republic. They will pay off in the future, whereas the Warsaw-Łódź section will pay off instantly, the moment it will be opened for use. It is around this transportation centre, the traffic in which may, as is predicted, reach 100,000 passengers per day, that we are building the whole infrastructure. When this becomes a fact, we will have a crowd of those willing to invest here.

Sylwester Pawłowski: If a child asked our generation ‘where have you been all the time, daddy or mummy?’ I think we all would have to blush. But in 20 years’ time, when the children of our children ask them the same question, they will say: we have been building the new face of Łódź. This discussion should be continued in the future, as an account of responsibility towards all the areas for which we can be held responsible. This goes to the Polish parliament, to the European Parliament, to the local government and the voivodeship government. History shows that the future of this city is created by people who wish to invest here. Fortunately, we have more Rembielińskis and Borowieckis of today. It is them who, through using their capital, will be bound with the city forever. The space which will emerge above the railway station will have to be developed not with public money, not with taxpayers’ money, but through private funding. And not necessarily with Western or Eastern capital, but with the money earned hard by Poles. That is why I would like to end my speech with an official request to all the decision-makers deciding about this huge investment in the heart of our city: start paying attention to the investors rooted in this area, and let us start talking about investment opportunities right now.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski: It’s a standard in Europe to place new content into old fabric. There is no questioning this. In Łódź, we have a successful, maybe with minor reservations, Manufaktura. I succeeded in revitalising the former building of ZMS, the Schweikert Palace and the former headquarters of Solidarność. This is the new content in the old form. This is what we should do with the rest of Łódź. There is a superb idea, still not realised, for Księży Młyn. I think we have a unique opportunity – we have Minister Cezary Grabarczyk and Minister Bogdan Zdrojewski on our side. We need to create good political PR. We have Minister Zdrojewski’s consent to conduct right here in Łódź a meeting of the council of EU ministers of transport during the Polish presidency in 2011. Go ahead, put everything on the table. But it takes some good will from the City and the Region. Someone has to follow the momentum, someone has to go there, organise everything.

Jacek Grudzień: We are going to choose the local government in November, so I consider this to be your call: choose wisely and Łódź will be built faster and it will make use of EU funding more efficiently.

Marcin Bugajski: This debate shows the vast interest in local issues and in the development of Łódź. I’m very grateful to the Mayor for organising it. I wish to declare, on behalf of Mayor Tomasz Sadzyński and mine, that if at any given moment there is a will to continue, we are ready. These can be periodic meetings, maybe monthly, maybe even more often. I will participate in them, as will all the people from the City Office who may help in experience exchange. Together with the Minister, the Marshal and all the politicians whom you normally associate with boring statements and quarrels, we will act everywhere it will be needed. We will go anywhere it will be necessary, we will invite whoever we need to for the projects to become reality. I declare my full support here.

Przemysław Andrzejak: What matters most is innovation and we discuss it together with the universities of Łódź. I remember talking, about two years ago during a Business Centre Club meeting, among others to Krzysztof Apostolidis, Andrzej Walczak and Marek Cieślak about CKD (clinical-teaching centre), about whether it was going to happen or not. Together, we decided that we were going to make efforts to put the idea of CKD into practice. And after two years of discussion and hard work we can say that in a year we are putting into use the investment that has been dragging on for 30 years. I think that with the new centre, the new soul of Łódź, in two years’ time we will all say again: let’s get started. The Medical University of Łódź naturally joins in the discussion and wants to be an active partner.

Włodzimierz Nykiel: First of all, this project deserves our full support because it’s bold and possible. Second of all, it makes use of our capabilities, our potential, but also our ideas and vision about this city. Thirdly, what is very important for me personally, it is in harmony with the nature of the changes. For years, Łódź has supported its own image as a textile city. Today, it’s an academic city. Industry in Łódź employs 52,000 people, whereas at the University of Lodz there are nearly 48,000 employees and students, and when you include the figures from the Technical University and the Medical University, you get nearly 80,000 people. Therefore, it is us who are changing the nature of the city; education is becoming an important part of its image, the image of the future. Our University is extremely interested in this project, as we see our role in it not only as a university providing research and education services, but also as something much bigger – a creator, as well as a participant of the most important events, including cultural events. There is one more reason. An interesting city means an interesting university. Please, refer to research on what factors influence the choice of a university: the city is one of the most important factors. I wish to declare you can count on us. This is, ladies and gentlemen, several thousand of competent employees, isn’t it? This is art history, economics, law, and many other fields. We wish to declare our readiness for cooperation. Please come to us – we will be happy to be a part of this.

Stanisław Bielecki: The fact that the Technical University supports this is obvious, no doubt about it. When I read ‘why build Łódź?' I was really amused. We are talking about 90-minute train journey to Berlin. We are ready; you can in fact see professors from our University who actively participate in the works. We are proposing a European Research Centre in Łódź. There are people who would come here to work. I only need buildings, quickly, and I could manage the rest myself. I wouldn’t want 100,000 people going through Łódź every day, as this will only create a lot of hustle and noise. I would rather see half of them getting off the train and staying here. Łódź has to decide. The only choice is to invest in knowledge because we don’t have new technologies; when investors come, they will come with old technology and then we can profit from this and keep those people travelling on the high-speed railway here. I would like to say that at the Technical University, we already have a working group for high-speed railway, I invite you all to cooperate with us.

Jacek Grudzień: I promised Krzysztof Candrowicz, from the ‘Łódź European Capital of Culture’ project, a few words…

Krzysztof Candrowicz: I hear everyone is speaking in one voice. It’s probably one of the last times we are asking if we should build at all. Soon, we will start asking: how? when? and what to do to make it the best and the fastest? Let’s give back to Łódź its world-class status from the 19th century. My voice started to tremble and that’s because I've just realised I'm living on the verge of something extraordinary in the history of this city. Let’s keep it up.

Andrzej Walczak: A city is as strong as its citizens are. Authorities build, but the strength is ours. My voice is also starting to tremble because we are starting a process which can be called a classic feedback. Your strength will show the strength that Łódź has in Poland. A city should be proud. This is where we begin – we’re starting to build Łódź in Poland. Four years ago, Krzysztof Cichoń and I were starting to develop the ideological foundation for the entire project, we often discussed what the Kobro Square should be. This first debate is a symbolic beginning of the creation of the Kobro Square, i.e. a place where people can meet. We won’t find happiness in a shop, because it’s simply not there. Our happiness results from something else, it results from the fact that we meet, and selfless meetings are the basis of our strength. We are starting a process which is as unpredictable as life itself. This is not only an architectural project but it's a process which started four years ago by pointing there and saying that this is where the square will be.